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  1. #1
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    dye sub Laser printer

    hi there
    i have got my T50 epson printer, but i have been trawling around on the net and found http://www.sublimationcartridge.com/faq.htm and they are saying that there is dye sub for laser printers.... can any one tell me more about it, is it good is it bad, what printers do you need?
    thanks

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    I cannot see how dye sub would work in a laser printer due to the high temp of the fuser unit.

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    I'd really be questioning the information on that page, some of it doesn't read right, especially the last sentence at 6

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    Well - i'm wrong again. Still never heard of sub toner though!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPCHYiW9ekg

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    Member DS Designs's Avatar
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    it's a USA thing, I read about it about 5 years ago on a forum i used to be a member of........i think theirs worked with the oki 3200, the toner carts were really expensive, close to $1000 for a full set if I remember correctly...looked pretty good though

    Dave

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    ok thanks guys... i thought it sounded too good to be true, i thought the same thing about the fuser and it just made no sense!!

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    Senior Member JSR's Avatar
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    As mentioned, there was a lot of interest in this a few years back in an effort to avoid the stranglehold of one ink manufacturer throttling the market. It would also avoid the issue of nozzle-blocking and would have the added benefit of not requiring ICC profiles (after all, the only reason we need profiles is because the dye-sub ink hasn't changed for 10 years).

    The concept of dye-sub going through a heat element isn't as daft as it sounds. I recall reading the original patent for inkjet dye-sublimation ink when it was doing the rounds a few years back. The original concept was for the ink to be protected from printer heat due to an encapsulation process. This presumably never happened due to the proliferation of Epson printers - which I think is a real shame because, had it been developed, we'd have been able to pick from a much wider selection of printers. However, the same concept could apply just the same to toner as to inkjet ink if someone invested in the right R&D.

    Further discussion on laser dye-sub can be found over at http://www.dyesub.org.

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    Senior Member bms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSR View Post
    As mentioned, there was a lot of interest in this a few years back in an effort to avoid the stranglehold of one ink manufacturer throttling the market. It would also avoid the issue of nozzle-blocking and would have the added benefit of not requiring ICC profiles (after all, the only reason we need profiles is because the dye-sub ink hasn't changed for 10 years).

    The concept of dye-sub going through a heat element isn't as daft as it sounds. I recall reading the original patent for inkjet dye-sublimation ink when it was doing the rounds a few years back. The original concept was for the ink to be protected from printer heat due to an encapsulation process. This presumably never happened due to the proliferation of Epson printers - which I think is a real shame because, had it been developed, we'd have been able to pick from a much wider selection of printers. However, the same concept could apply just the same to toner as to inkjet ink if someone invested in the right R&D.

    Further discussion on laser dye-sub can be found over at http://www.dyesub.org.
    So just a quick read of the above JSR, does that suggest that encapsulation pevents the act of sublimation taking place at temperatures reached by fuser units (whatever that may be)? Dont know what temp a fuser unit gets to but it must be fairly hot.

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    Senior Member JSR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bms View Post
    So just a quick read of the above JSR, does that suggest that encapsulation pevents the act of sublimation taking place at temperatures reached by fuser units (whatever that may be)? Dont know what temp a fuser unit gets to but it must be fairly hot.
    As I understand it, the last big challenge was the TOG case before they sold out. One of the things TOG were challenging was that the patent included an emulsifying enforcing agent - called an EEA - that protected the dye particles from heat before and during printing. If the patent specifically referred to protecting the ink from heat during printing then it's clear that it was intended for use in a printer with a thermal printhead - and not a micro-piezo printhead.

    As I understand it, they believed that the patent as presented couldn't be used to cover all inkjet printers and, therefore, anyone producing inks for a non-thermal printer would not be infringing the patent.

    Unfortunately, TOG sold out before anything was proven.

    What intrigues me is not how the patent is used but that it suggests there was a time when dye-sub ink was being developed to work in printers with thermal printheads. We wouldn't be stuck with just using Epson printers with tiny cartridges - we could be using HP printers with much larger cartridges. There would also be less problem with potential clogging because thermal inkjets generally have/had user-replaceable printheads.

    I guess it's one of those "what ifs" that will never see the light of day now that there's no one left to challenge the patent.

    That said, according to a thread on dyesub.org, it won't be many years now until the patent expires. If that's true, the flood gates could open for cheaper dye-sub ink without everyone being afraid of repercussions.

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