Sawgrass Patent Discussion

[John G]

This has been discussed time and time again - I don't understand it either but they do have a patent and I've heard they crack down hard on people selling sub inks which aren't licensed for a particular type of printer.

Basically your buying in inks which have been licensed for large format and selling them without a license to people with standard printers. I think it must be the same principle as Red diesel for farm vehicles.

Cheers John

[pisquee]

i don't deny they have a patent, obviously they have them.
My concerns are to what extent this legally gives them power in UK/Europe.
It is clear that a patent gives them an effective copyright to stop people copying or making a similar product, does it also give them legal right to tell an end user, who hasn't bought directly from them how they can use said product.
As I have bought from a dealer, and not InkTec directly, my contract of sale is with the dealer, and I have no business relationship with InkTec.

[pisquee]

The red diesel thing is a red herring, as that is a government/taxation legal issue, and not one of intellectual property.

People seem to like car analogies, so it seems to me that it's like being told I can buy a Toyota car from a Toyota dealer, but I am only allowed to drive it on the M1 motorway, and I am not allowed to sell it to anyone in the future, unless they promise to also only drive it on the M1.

[Paul]

It is clear that a patent gives them an effective copyright to stop people copying or making a similar product, does it also give them legal right to tell an end user, who hasn't bought directly from them how they can use said product.

its very important what Martin has said. its up to supplier to check if buyer own wide format printer. as there is no law that will stop you to use your printer in the way you want to use it. you can even put the tea in the carts if you wish! is your printer and you can do with it whatever you want. you can even use it as a ornament in your toilet if you wish. thats why is so important that suppliers check whoe they selling too. as there is no contorl after some ink slipp out.

this reminding me last SONY court battl with guy who use his ps3 in te way he wanted to use :) http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2...tle-begins.ars

[John G]

The red diesel thing is a red herring

I was trying to show that you can buy cheap red diesel, but put it in a car, instead of a farm vehicle, and your in big trouble. Same goes with the ink - put it in a printer it wasn't sold to go in and the person that sold you it is in big trouble.

When you bought this Ink (originally - very 1st order) did you get asked for proof of owning a large format printer ? - ie serial number etc.

I'm not agreeing with the enforcement of the sawgrass inks patent - just informing you that your ebay listing will get you in trouble - i'm not that bothered at all as I cannot use this ink.

[Andrew]

Their patents stand up in court as they have been challenged a few times. Everyone who has taken them on has lost or caved in and the last being TOG as far as I can remember. That was US but it is the same for Europe.

It's illegal to sell largeformat qualified ink to small format users in sublimation. It is illegal for small format printers to use large format sublimation ink. Sawgrass have threatened many time to go after the end user not just the supplier. Plenty ignore the patent as there is a saving to be made but it's the risk you take if you decide to go that way.

[bms]

Their patents stand up in court as they have been challenged a few times. Everyone who has taken them on has lost or caved in and the last being TOG as far as I can remember. That was US but it is the same for Europe.

It's illegal to sell largeformat qualified ink to small format users in sublimation. It is illegal for small format printers to use large format sublimation ink. Sawgrass have threatened many time to go after the end user not just the supplier. Plenty ignore the patent as there is a saving to be made but it's the risk you take if you decide to go that way.

Well put Andrew.

The point I was trying to make originally, but skirted around the issue, was that if you say on this forum that you bought large format ink and are using it in a small format printer (e.g the Epson 4000, 4400) then be aware of the potential repercussions, especially if you then go on to say your selling it on ebay.

Sawgrass spend millions every year enforcing their patent and rigorously enforce it. I know of people having their ebay listing removed (end users) selling "unwanted" sublimation ink. Whether you agree or disagree, unless you know something that, for example Tropical Graphics (USA) or Rotech (Europe) know, then these are the rules we all live with.

[Paul]

Would be nice if they spend this millions on designing dedicated printer :-)

[pisquee]

This wiki article explains the legal side of things in other industries with similar situations ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-sale_restraint

[bms]

Would be nice if they spend this millions on designing dedicated printer :-)

Wouldn't it just!