which wide format?

[logobear]

We are looking to extend our offering and return to wide format, - previously has Epson 7600 and loved it for photo prints and canvas, but don't think pigment is the right direction....

Looking to doing garment transferes, stickers and signage with print n cut... but what else?

Can the eco solvent printers still produce great photo and canvas wraps?
Is there much point in having more than 4 colours? - Some also have white & metalic silver, - but what would you use them for?

I am inclined to think that the entry BN-20 is not wide enough for some applications and media choice is limited so am looking at Rolands XXX 300 options.
Is there much to choose between SG, SPi, and VSi ?

How do ink costs compare for eco solvent and pigment (Epson/HP ?)

Finally. brand? - Roland seem to rule the roost, by what about Mimaki?
I usually buy new, so I get the training and support for the 1st year, - but is 2nd hand worth concidering?

Thoughts appreciated.
Phil

[socialgiraffe]

WOW, this is going to be a long one, it may also be all over the place in terms of answers, sorry.... :-)

Roland are the king of print n cut because their machines are the best. For example, I know with some transfer media on a Mimaki, you need to wait 24hours for it to gas off, you do not need to on a Roland.

But they also charge for that and are much more expensive.

Ink costs are not really a factor as they last for ages,

I use white ink a lot for car stickers and window stickers. However if I purchased this machine again I probably would not bother and instead configure the machine for double inks (faster print speed) or not bother with the 8 colour option. The print head for my machine is £2000+ the print head for a standard Roland is £500 (very rough prices). I removed the metallic ages ago as it is never used. However you can get some amazing effects with that ink, its just not very durable. White ink can not be used for heat transfers.

if you want to do banners you will need a minimum of a 540 (54 inch) and from what I remember the V in a model name stands for Versaworks which is Rolands software (I think its free). You will need that software so make sure you get a machine that works with it.

A BN20 is stupidly slow and will limit your media, I have one of those as well and I really do not bother with it.

I also have a lightbar configured SP540V. This has UV ink in it and is superb for a lot of things, however 6 print heads in 1 year because of magenta ink viscosity tells you to steer clear of them

Worth noting that Roland are useless at greyscale images. Do not even bother with them. Photo quality is superb though.

Training is useful and I would recommend a warranty, but not from Roland. Customer service is woeful and they are bullies is all I am allowed to say on that one right now :-)

Lastly, I rarely use my Rolands for transfers, I have a OKI white and use TMT papers which produce a much nicer transfer which is just as durable and lasting.

To sum up I have the following

54" Roland 540 configured with UV inks
30" Roland configured with metallic and white
BN20 configured with white UV

If I were you I would go for a standard 540 (not UV), nice fast machine which can print on a huge range of medias etc etc.

Lastly, someone told me that the 540 does have print head problems, I do not know as mine is set for UV so I get free replacement heads (they admit there is a problem with the UV ink). But worth investigating on other forums before committing to that size

Sorry the answer is all over the place, but if you have any specific questions please ask...

[RogerC]

Adding to that....if you go the Roland route 'avoid' the new ink EcoSol Max3 at all costs. I say this from experience. I bought a new Versacamm SP300i earlier this year and being new was configured for the new Roland inks (EcoSol Max3) as opposed to the EcoSol Max inks I had been running in my previous 9 year old machine (forerunner to the new machine). In the years I owned the previous machine I had but two replacement heads (I had and still have the Bronze Roland service contract so heads are covered in the terms/conditions). The new machine had three heads in as many months due to banding and last month it had two more heads so having lost faith in the '3' inks I had it converted back to the EcoSol Max inks. Touch wood there have been no issues so far....and it was left for two weeks recently printing perfectly on my return.
My machine is CMYK format and prints all media beautifully so I can heartily recommend these machines.....not cheap but as long as the ink issue ....avoid Roland 'Max3' inks...is understood and service contract is in place they are brilliant.

[logobear]

Thanks for your ideas.
Social, - you mention prefereing TMT for transferes, - we use a lot of obm, - but havn't mastered print & cut & I was imagining using a eco solvent printer for just that ....
Given the price of OBM and toner etc for the Oki, - just wondering why you prefere to print n cut on the Roland.

Are there any advantages in using the UV inks? - does this mean that the printer has a UV heater dryer for the media, - what is the difference in end result and ink costs?
I am thinking that some form of warrenty support loks like a good idea.
can you do canvases on them, - with only 4 colours, how do they compare with Epson/HP ?
thanks
P

[froggy]

Depends what you want to produce as to which machine may suit you best.

IMO it is better to have a printer with separate cutter rather than an all in one machine. I have both a Roland Vsi and also RF 640 I no longer use the Vsi as a print and cut its now used as a print only machine. If you use eco solvent inks then you will need to outgas the prints before laminating (rec 24 hours). You have other ink choices.

Latex ( dont think there is a print and cut machine though) hard wearing highly scratch resistant prints come off the machine dry, 6 colour machines the older 25600 machines are cheap and some 310,s less than £6K so Ive been told. New 5 series have come on a long way but they cost money. as newest tech.

Led UV hard wearing but machines are relatively expensive, as mentioned above some Roland and Mimaki machines can be converted to LED UV with Lightbar UV ink and curing system.

White ink is ok if you plan to print to a lot of clear media such as window cling otherwise dont bother, it will slow your machine down and you will find most of the white ink in the overflow bottle. Metallic inks, unless thats your market stay away, ink is relatively expensive and will slow your production rate right down.

As for print width go as wide as you can, its very rare you will hear someone say their printer is too wide. As for a RIP, versaworks is free with Roland but you can run a Roland with other software, I use Flexi with mine only because versaworks wont perform a certain task I need my production flow to do.

[socialgiraffe]

Agree with everything above except the print n cut bit. There are arguments that separate machines are faster but that only comes into consideration if you are looking at stupidly high volume. If I am right with your market logo, then a 1 size fits all will suit you better.

Another note, I have never waited for any media to gas off on my Roland. I print stickers, posters, transfers and window clings and never had a problem. There maybe other media (i.e. car vinyl wrap or outdoor banner material) but the VS is not used for that.

I prefer TMT papers to print n cut as it is a better finish, the print n cut stuff is thick and looks like a sticker stuck on a garment, TMT WOW isn't and is just as hard wearing. The price is pretty much around the same and as you sell direct to consumer the difference is nominal. If you were selling in bulk where 1p mattered then perhaps it is a better option. Why are you not using WOW? Do you have an OKI white printer?

UV machines are designed for outdoor environments, so if you were looking at doing long term outdoor banners (over 3 years) then a UV is the way to go, however I would keep away from them for now if I were you. Likewise I am currently looking for a latex machine myself. These are faster machines with the media being completely dry as soon as it is printed. Good for me who has a client looking to order 1800 banners a year. However I would not even consider one if it wasn't for the high volume potential.

Not sure on the warranty either. If I remember correctly a silver warranty with Roland is £1500. If you look after the machine then you will spend considerably less than that a year on maintaining your machine. My VS has not had a penny spent on it in three years if you exclude cleaning kits.

You can print canvas on these machines, from my understanding the quality of the print is marginally inferior but there is the advantage that you do not have to varnish the material and it will not crack when folding. But i reiterate that Roland's are crap when it comes to greyscale images. Really really crap.

[mags1892]

All solvent should gas off before lamination if not the laminate can peel off . Even waterbased ink shpuld be allowed a short period before varnish its called science and cant be refuted

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[socialgiraffe]

Not refuting it, just saying I have never done it. But then I never laminate/varnish.

If you read my posts you would see what I use my VS for and would see that none of those products require lamination.

[froggy]

Thanks for your ideas.
Social, - you mention prefereing TMT for transferes, - we use a lot of obm, - but havn't mastered print & cut & I was imagining using a eco solvent printer for just that ....
Given the price of OBM and toner etc for the Oki, - just wondering why you prefere to print n cut on the Roland.

Are there any advantages in using the UV inks? - does this mean that the printer has a UV heater dryer for the media, - what is the difference in end result and ink costs?
I am thinking that some form of warrenty support loks like a good idea.
can you do canvases on them, - with only 4 colours, how do they compare with Epson/HP ?
thanks
P

UV LED machines use Ultra Violet curing ink which is cured at a specific wave length of ultra violet light (usually 395nM)
Most uv LED curing printers produce quite a grainy print, the Lightbar retro fit ink curing system uses a solvent UV ink the solvent part of the ink is cured using the heaters in the printer while the UV component is cured using a Ultra Violet lamp and cures instantly. The print finish is glossy compared to UV only ink systems.

Solvent UV inks claim to use less ink per m2, print quality on a 2x cmyk setup is good, the only advantage of 6 colour inksets is that there is slightly more tonal variation (with my eyes I cant tell the difference) but 6 colour does slow production speed down, it depends on how much work you put through the machine. UV ink will adhere to virtually anything and is a better bet if you are working with more heat sensitive media. My UV machine could produce perfectly acceptable prints for the canvas market, although I dont use my machines for that particular work. Could it produce prints which would produce high end gallery work? I dont think so,but I would buy a machine specifically designed for that job with the ink set to match.

If you want to feel your way in IMO buy a second user Versacamm and then move on from there when you have found your niche with a machine that is better suited to the work you produce. I wouldnt buy latex from what you have said previously. The machines do need to be kept working though.

[socialgiraffe]

Agree with everything Froggy says