how to choose a print & cut machine?

[logobear]

Roland seem to have the print & cut scene well sorted.
Do they ?
Good inks, and lots of media, so can do print & cut for tshirts, stickers, and even outdoor signage and wraps.
I don't see super heavy use ..... and mostly tshirts, and our own signage !
Question is, - which model?
I hear that the baby BN20 is limited in media choice, and more expensive to run due to small tanks ?
Above that, there are all sorts of variants, - 4, or more than 4 colours...
New or pre-loved?
ECO-SOL .... and an ECO-SOL 2 which i hear i should avoid ???
Any tips on the range and what to go for?
Can I print photos / canvas wraps with this machine ?
I am prepared to gambol on second user ... it won't be our main machine, - or am I being stupid?

Dyesub experiences apreciated
happy new printer!
Phil x

[pw66]

I am interested in this thread as I am also looking to add a print and cut machine this year.
I have heard that the BN20 is very slow, which would be of little use to me for sign making. Also the 20" maximum width would not suit my requirements.

Mimaki offer a good range. Has any one here used one?
I am leaning towards the CJV150 range at the moment - either the 75 or the 107.

[Quinsfan]

Again very interested myself. Does any body know if you can use the latex printers for textile vinyl? My initial reaction would be no as Latex is water based but am willing to learn.

[froggy]

I have a VSi540 print and cut, it runs on 2 x 4 colour. Its been a good reliable machine, if you go for 6 colour it will slow your production right down. The main advantage of 6 colour is that it produces better graduation of grey tones, it doesnt give you a wider colour gamut.

I have used my machine with solvent UV inks so cant advise on your ink, but I have heard of people having issues with the latest Max inks. Go with the widest machine your budget/space allows.

You can always print a narrower media in a wider machine, its tricky to do things the other way around.

[socialgiraffe]

Lots of bullet points below, please ask for clarification on anything you require more info on....

The BN20 will handle everything you need but will be limited to width of media and how slow it is. My experience will say avoid it if you can (I have three Rolands including a BN20).
I have heard bad things about their SOL MAX 3 ink so I would suggest avoiding that, however if you purchase new you may not have a choice.
Avoid a secondhand SP540, the magenta print head has issues
If you are purchasing secondhand you will be limited in what configuration you get as you can not change it
I recommend one that is configured for white
If secondhand, get from a reliable supplier such as Granthams. Beware of ebay business sellers "banging" them out, they are selling very old kit
You can print photos and canvas (which will not crack even without laminating) on these machines, the media range available is huge
Main suppliers of media are Graftype and Metamark, there are other specialist suppliers and a visit to the Sign & Print show will open your eyes to the huge range available
Personally I steer clear of Mimaki for print and cut due to the gassing off required in between printing and cutting (not necessary with Roland ink), although I am looking at one for another project right now
Latex printers will not work for garments, or at least the one I sampled didn't. Latex really is for mass production of outdoor media

[logobear]

Hi Social,
your points are all good.
with the big trade show coming up .... but also a constant supply of pre-owned....
I am mostly/totally a garment printer.
will print & cut garment vinyl survive a living wash text over many wanshes?
I know i might get into signage/stickers and more ..... but it's mostly about the tshirt.
We do quite a bit of OBM, - and cut out by hand , and some wow/t-one but always want more/faster/better/cheaper
How does Roland score?
What tshirt print&cut media might you suggest I take a look at?
ta
P

[RogerC]

Lots of bullet points below, please ask for clarification on anything you require more info on....

The BN20 will handle everything you need but will be limited to width of media and how slow it is. My experience will say avoid it if you can (I have three Rolands including a BN20).
I have heard bad things about their SOL MAX 3 ink so I would suggest avoiding that, however if you purchase new you may not have a choice.
Avoid a secondhand SP540, the magenta print head has issues
If you are purchasing secondhand you will be limited in what configuration you get as you can not change it
I recommend one that is configured for white
If secondhand, get from a reliable supplier such as Granthams. Beware of ebay business sellers "banging" them out, they are selling very old kit
You can print photos and canvas (which will not crack even without laminating) on these machines, the media range available is huge
Main suppliers of media are Graftype and Metamark, there are other specialist suppliers and a visit to the Sign & Print show will open your eyes to the huge range available
Personally I steer clear of Mimaki for print and cut due to the gassing off required in between printing and cutting (not necessary with Roland ink), although I am looking at one for another project right now
Latex printers will not work for garments, or at least the one I sampled didn't. Latex really is for mass production of outdoor media

Only just seen this thread so might be a little late in adding my experience.....like SG said yes there are 'BAD THINGS' with SolMax3. I bought a new Versacamm last March (2016) and within about 6-8 weeks had banding problems.....long story short....new print head required!!!.....'two...yes two more' instances as time went by (approx 6-8 weeks apart) and enough was enough....in total over a period of a few months my machine required 5 print heads!!! This did include the two required to put me back onto EcoSol Max (NOT Max3) and, touch wood, since then I have had no issues even when leaving the machine unused for 2-3 weeks.

So yes Versacamm are brilliant machines but if considering one stick to the tried and tested EcoSol Max inks........oh and buy a 'Roland' maintenance contract.....it's worth every penny.

[socialgiraffe]

will print & cut garment vinyl survive a living wash text over many wanshes?

Yes, I have never had any come back. I use TMT print and cut vinyls but I also highly rate Siser as sold by Graftype. I use Granthams third party ink except white and silver which is Roland.

oh and buy a 'Roland' maintenance contract.....it's worth every penny.

[

Not sure on that. I had a contract with them for three years. they never came out once and never serviced the machine, it cost £4860 + VAT for the three years and nothing ever went wrong. After having a disagreement with them (way too long to go into) the machine has not had a warranty since. That is over two years ago and it still has not needed anything. If I have simply put the warranty money in the bank there would currently be £9720 in there and I still have the machine working. I personally think it would be better to get a warranty with a third party supplier, they tend to be better warranties and better customer care.

Is your machine a 540 Roger? Only asking because my 540 has had about 10 new heads on it which are replaced FOC all the time because there is a known issue with them and Colorific ink

Warranties do give you that peace of mind though.

[RogerC]

Yes, I have never had any come back. I use TMT print and cut vinyls but I also highly rate Siser as sold by Graftype. I use Granthams third party ink except white and silver which is Roland.

[

Not sure on that. I had a contract with them for three years. they never came out once and never serviced the machine, it cost £4860 + VAT for the three years and nothing ever went wrong. After having a disagreement with them (way too long to go into) the machine has not had a warranty since. That is over two years ago and it still has not needed anything. If I have simply put the warranty money in the bank there would currently be £9720 in there and I still have the machine working. I personally think it would be better to get a warranty with a third party supplier, they tend to be better warranties and better customer care.

Is your machine a 540 Roger? Only asking because my 540 has had about 10 new heads on it which are replaced FOC all the time because there is a known issue with them and Colorific ink

Warranties do give you that peace of mind though.

Hi SG...and others of course,
Mine is the SP300-i.....bought to replace the previous one (an updated 300v to i spec) that was coming on very close to 10 years old. I never had any problems with Roland warranty terms or service. Using that crappy Max3 ink certainly gave me a load of hassle though and I nearly lost faith in the machine. Brand new and within 2 months it needs a new head!!! Still Roland came out quite swiftly, took a look over the machine and replaced the head/aligned etc. On each occasion there was never any hassle with them and at the last incident I said enough is enough....I want converting back to EcoSol Max. All done....new heads....set up 'and' a complete set of 440 inks. So looking at that lot I think you can see why I reckon the warranty/service contract to be a good idea.

Just wondering...... if you use non Roland inks as you seem to be doing who does the 'free' head replacement?

[mr-gobby]

Bn-20 will do all you need logobear, takes the media required, preowned can save 50%+ on cost, see a head print off any prospective machines and see it happening and working before parting with your money. A perfect headprint is ideal but some cleaning cycles can improve ones with dropout, Roland can access your machine remotely,, warranty is costly but that's the risk factor. Clean it, use it, change simple service parts and should give you good service for many years. If you want to buy new go to P&p and see them there