DSF

Ian M;62909 wrote:Are you sure Martin?

I've just been looking & the ink for the Ricoh SG3110DN works out at £1.58 per ml for black & £1.65 per ml for the colours. The Ricoh holds only 42ml for the black cartridge & 29ml for the colour cartridge which in total is just 129 ml of ink. The cost of 4 ink cartridges for the Ricoh is £210.

The Epson WP-4015DN if you use Artaunum ink costs 48p per ml for all 4 colours. The Epson holds 120ml per refillable cartridge which is a total of 480ml of ink. The cost of all 4 cartridges for the Epson is £230.40.

So, if you bought the Epson you would get another 351ml of ink for just an extra £30.40.

The WP-4015 is only supported with the SubliJet-IQ inks.
WP-4015 Black Cartridge - 49ml = £68 +vat (cost per ml = £1.39)
Ricoh SG3110 Black Cartridge - 42ml £55 +vat (cost per ml = £1.31)

WP-4015 Colour Cartridges - 29ml = £47.50 +vat (cost per ml = £1.64)
Ricoh SG3110 Colour Cartridges - 29ml = £40 +vat (cost per ml = £1.38)

My calculations make the Epson WP-4015 more expensive than the Ricoh SG3110 per ml of ink

If you use different inks in the WP-4015 and there are any problems then there are no guarantees/ support/ warranty from Sawgrass. So, using the supported inks in the supported printers the Epson WP-4015 works out more expensive per ml.

I stand corrected & thanks Martin but, there isn't that much difference is there in price to be fair.

I know you are restricted in what ink you can use for the Ricoh's with them using the gel ink but, you don't have that restriction on the Epson. So, if you use the Epson & decide to use refillable cartridges & Artainum ink which is made by Sawgrass you wouldn't get any support from them at all.

I know i'm playing at being the devil's advocate now but, why can't we buy Sublijet IQ in bottle form like we can with Artainum? Is this a way that Sawgrass can keep the prices inflated for their benefit because, if you want or need their support you only have to buy the cartridges?

The thing that really does get to me is that I can buy an Epson 1500 with an easy flow system that uses Artainum ink which has full support from Sawgrass but, I can't buy an Epson WP-4015 using Artainum ink using refillable cartridges & expect the same support. As I said before the refillable cartridges hold 120ml of ink each which makes them an internal CISS.

I really think that Sawgrass had an opportunity here with the Epson WP-4015 that a lot of us would like to use. It was the opportunity of a supported printer which could easily bring the ink costs down. It was also an opportunity to bring people like myself back to using & buying ink from Sawgrass again. Then I now think why don't I keep to the unsupported route & buy a Brother printer like a few others have with quite a lot of success.

I really do think that Sawgrass has missed the boat with this one.

Ian M;62984 wrote:I stand corrected & thanks Martin but, there isn't that much difference is there in price to be fair.

I know you are restricted in what ink you can use for the Ricoh's with them using the gel ink but, you don't have that restriction on the Epson. So, if you use the Epson & decide to use refillable cartridges & Artainum ink which is made by Sawgrass you wouldn't get any support from them at all.

I know i'm playing at being the devil's advocate now but, why can't we buy Sublijet IQ in bottle form like we can with Artainum? Is this a way that Sawgrass can keep the prices inflated for their benefit because, if you want or need their support you only have to buy the cartridges?

The thing that really does get to me is that I can buy an Epson 1500 with an easy flow system that uses Artainum ink which has full support from Sawgrass but, I can't buy an Epson WP-4015 using Artainum ink using refillable cartridges & expect the same support. As I said before the refillable cartridges hold 120ml of ink each which makes them an internal CISS.

I really think that Sawgrass had an opportunity here with the Epson WP-4015 that a lot of us would like to use. It was the opportunity of a supported printer which could easily bring the ink costs down. It was also an opportunity to bring people like myself back to using & buying ink from Sawgrass again. Then I now think why don't I keep to the unsupported route & buy a Brother printer like a few others have with quite a lot of success.

I really do think that Sawgrass has missed the boat with this one.

You can buy SubliJet-IQ inks in bulk form as SubliJet-IQ ink has been around for as long as Artainium in CISS format. The SubliJet-IQ inks were/ are sold in 125ml bags using the quick connect system and I think all Artainium distributors can sell SubliJetIQ inks in the quick connect format.

The issue, for Sawgrass is, I think, that if customers refill their own carts and have issues then this starts to give the system a bad reputation. If Sawgrass control the ink delivery system which is proven reliable then, apart from the costs, users are happy and the systems work. This is the philosophy behind the move to close cartridge systems - they work, work reliably and most folk are happy. If you start refilling yourself then you might have to expect problems sometimes and if you're happy to fault find yourself then okay, but several people want a simple to use system that works and the closed cartridge systems (now they hold decent volumes of ink) have been a step change in sublimation printing.

bms;62990 wrote:You can buy SubliJet-IQ inks in bulk form as SubliJet-IQ ink has been around for as long as Artainium in CISS format. The SubliJet-IQ inks were/ are sold in 125ml bags using the quick connect system and I think all Artainium distributors can sell SubliJetIQ inks in the quick connect format.

The issue, for Sawgrass is, I think, that if customers refill their own carts and have issues then this starts to give the system a bad reputation. If Sawgrass control the ink delivery system which is proven reliable then, apart from the costs, users are happy and the systems work. This is the philosophy behind the move to close cartridge systems - they work, work reliably and most folk are happy. If you start refilling yourself then you might have to expect problems sometimes and if you're happy to fault find yourself then okay, but several people want a simple to use system that works and the closed cartridge systems (now they hold decent volumes of ink) have been a step change in sublimation printing.

That is really interesting about the SubliJet IQ inks. So, in theory you could use the SubliJet IQ inks & you could also use the PowerDriver if you put the ink in refillable cartridges.

I appreciate what you say about the ink delivery system being reliable but, there have been times when this hasn't been the case. We have seen quite a few posts in the past where people have had problems with air leaks in the systems. The one good thing about the refillable cartridges is that you wouldn't have the air leak problem because there are no tubes to suck in air. I use a Brother for my everyday printing which has refillable cartridges & I have never had a single problem with them. This is why I can see one of the advantages of using the refillable cartridges. Another advantage of the refillable cartridges for the Epson WP-4015 is that they have an internal device for mixing the ink as it is delivered to the print heads.

I have to admit it is still tempting to try speaking with my old engineering head on.

Can I ask with the Ricoh SG3110DN is the only the one company that produces the refills? I take it you cant get bulk ink for a ciss for this printer?

Tryweryn;63442 wrote:Can I ask with the Ricoh SG3110DN is the only the one company that produces the refills? I take it you cant get bulk ink for a ciss for this printer?

If you read back at the posts in this thread I think you will find the answer there.

Tryweryn;62914 wrote:Just checked and both work out at 28p per sheet.

What costs 28p per sheet ?