DSF

Aaaaah!! I've just been paid a visit by the trading standards following a complaint made against my t shirt company, it has really annoyed me although I think it incredibly petty on their behalf.
Some years ago I declined the offer to attend a show as I was informed there was another trader doing an almost identical product, we thought whats the point? same marquee, products etc

Any way to cut a long story short we went and had a look at his stand, not competition at all in our eyes and have since been to many in the same marquee as him.
He only has one t shirt on his stand similar to one of ours, his remaining products are gift wrap etc. 3 days after our first show together he submitted this design paid £200 and made it his own.

We are now told we have to remove the design from our catalog and get rid of all the stock or it will be seized. Luckily we don't have a lot made up of this particular item.
He has advised me to submit all my designs @ £200 a go to protect them, but they're just words (although with my own definitions) and people have already copied some after a stint on fleabay with precisely the same font etc and which is why I no longer do that.
Sorry for the rant folks but god i'm mad PERHAPS I'M JUST BEING A BIT SENSITIVE ABOUT THIS ONE

I'm not sure i'd want to spend half my days wanting to threaten some small fish with the small claims court either.
Makes me wonder, small fry t shirt shop like myself yet the link re the academy award winner stitch up posted gets away with it.

I think it's ridicolous that they allow anybody to copyright a few words strung together in a sentence. Since when does the English language become copyrightable

can you not show how long you have been selling that design ?? how long can you prove its been on your website for ? have you ever sold it to anyone via mail order ?

it is something we have constant issues with, recently i have tried to do the following with my designs, take my design in to the post office, i get them to put their date stamp on the sheet of paper, then i mail it back to myself with a signed for delivery, i live 1 mile from the post office, and it makes me laugh, but im hoping that the dated stamp on the actual design would hold up as it is dated by a reliable 3rd party - ie the post office, luckily i have a very good realtionship with them, and they understand what i am trying to achieve,

we have a competitor who thinks he has the right to t shirts like "i am sparticus" as he has sold it for years, as his own design - yet it is from a monty python film, - so who is right

Very unlucky but I thought words, names, slogans, or other short phrases couldn't be copyrighted. If you can prove you sold this design or slogan 1st then it doesn't matter if the other party claims he holds a copyright. IMO

Cheers John

AJLA wrote:Aaaaah!! I've just been paid a visit by the trading standards following a complaint made against my t shirt company, it has really annoyed me although I think it incredibly petty on their behalf.
Some years ago I declined the offer to attend a show as I was informed there was another trader doing an almost identical product, we thought whats the point? same marquee, products etc

Any way to cut a long story short we went and had a look at his stand, not competition at all in our eyes and have since been to many in the same marquee as him.
He only has one t shirt on his stand similar to one of ours, his remaining products are gift wrap etc. 3 days after our first show together he submitted this design paid £200 and made it his own.

We are now told we have to remove the design from our catalog and get rid of all the stock or it will be seized. Luckily we don't have a lot made up of this particular item.
He has advised me to submit all my designs @ £200 a go to protect them, but they're just words (although with my own definitions) and people have already copied some after a stint on fleabay with precisely the same font etc and which is why I no longer do that.
Sorry for the rant folks but god i'm mad PERHAPS I'M JUST BEING A BIT SENSITIVE ABOUT THIS ONE

I'm not sure i'd want to spend half my days wanting to threaten some small fish with the small claims court either.
Makes me wonder, small fry t shirt shop like myself yet the link re the academy award winner stitch up posted gets away with it.

What I would do is if you can document that you were using it before he copyrighted it then his application should be withdrawn

This sounds fishy to me.

You say that a competitor believes you copied their design and so they sent around Trading Standards who told you to protect your designs by paying £200 each?

According to http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/policy/TSIpolicy.cfm, the policy of Trading Standards is to enforce "consumer related legislation". A business competitor isn't a consumer, so how can they get Trading Standards involved?

If a customer had bought a T-Shirt from you which then fell apart and you refused to do anything about it, then *they* would complain to Trading Standards. But, even then, Trading Standards are not likely to act on one complaint. If they got several complaints, then they may get involved - probably starting with phone calls and letters. This would involve what failed on the product and your inability to solve the customer's concerns. It wouldn't be anything to do with what designs you can and can't use.

I don't really see them knocking on your door saying "pay £200 to protect your designs". That's not their purpose.

If your competitor believes that you are using one of their IP-protected designs, then they would probably get a lawyer involved to issue you with a "cease and desist" letter. That's not Trading Standards, though, because mediating between businesses is not in their remit. That's what courts are for.

As always, I stress that I'm am not a legal person and I would recommend that, at the very least, you read up on all appropriate websites and, if necessary, obtain legal counsel.

Incidentally, for those who say you can copyright words, there are several different areas of Intellectual Property Rights. While you may be right under copyright, you may not be right under Trademarks. Copyright is an automatic right, Trademarks are not. Trademarks are generally registered for a set period and, if you fail to protect your Trademark, then it may be seen as giving up your rights to it. In contrast, you don't have to protect your Copyright to maintain your rights.

For example - The owner of a Trademark *will* take the trouble to challenge "small fry" because failure to do this may be seen as giving up his rights. A copyright owner may not decide to challenge you today but he will retain his copyright. It's a tricky area, so read up on Intellectual Property Rights.

After reading JSR's comments it does sound fishy, especially the £200 per design.

Copyright price list - no mention of the £200.00
[url="http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/services/price_list]http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/services/price_list[/url]

I still don't think you can copyright a phrase though!

Cheers John

Thank you for your replies, so many i'd like to comment on ...m

accdave wrote:it is something we have constant issues with, recently i have tried to do the following with my designs, take my design in to the post office, i get them to put their date stamp on the sheet of paper, then i mail it back to myself with a signed for delivery, i

This is precisely what trading standards advised and we will get onto it.

However I think it odd also that the TS' said they had received only the 1 complaint and chose to visit, why not a phone call or letter?

When advised we aught to do the same with our work (protect it) I had also replied with "how can I as they are phrases widely used in Cornwall albeit with my own definition but still words"

We did explain that we were using this design for some years now we were told that this didn't matter as we had not registerd it and he now has.

How can you register a heart and call it your own, perhaps we could change the name of it? How do people sell Union Jack items?

All very difficult to understand. We are going to give the TS a call to try to understand it better. It was he that informed us the other company had paid the £200. fee.
I shall let you know the result .

BTW....

JSR wrote:This sounds fishy to me.

JSR wrote:I don't really see them knocking on your door saying "pay £200 to protect your designs". That's not their purpose.

You say that a competitor believes you copied their design and so they sent around Trading Standards who told you to protect your designs by paying £200 each?

Yes unfortunately he did recommend this.

I think someone's either being funny with you or playing a practical joke. Words or phrases cannot have a copyright, but they can have a trademark and it costs a hell of a lot more than the £200.00 you have been quoted.

Price list for trademarks is as follows:
[url="http://www.uktrademarkregistration.com/trademark6.html]http://www.uktrademarkregistration.com/trademark6.html[/url]

If you think you might be infringing someone elses rights try a check at:
[url="http://www.ipo.gov.uk/tm/t-find/t-find-text/]http://www.ipo.gov.uk/tm/t-find/t-find-text/[/url]

Cheers John

whoops - see next post