Premium Membership Poll - Your thoughts please

[purpledragon]

Im a premium member at the moment so no point in voting i gotta ask though if you no longer visit the forum how are you going to choose that option ??? anyway i digress i'm happy to admit i paid membership because the BMS discount made it worth it , My views have changed over recent times i do think there should be a members only area and restrictions on non members posting etc ive seen a couple of threads recently which to be honest make me say "bloody cheek" from new commers who havnt paid membership who are trying to up their post count so they can view members links (gotta wonder why thats so important to them ) to posts for help going up then you never hear from them again. The forums evolved a lot in recent times i personally think its time for a paid membership with all the help that goes with it and unpaid viewing only. As for where the money goes thats justins business and no one elses really

[JSR]

Look at this forum as a business,

But is it a business? This forum began because a bunch of dye-subbers were disgruntled with the way a previous dye-sub forum was going. None of us expected Justin to be out of pocket for setting up this forum so, when the time came, we donated. When it proved awkward for Justin to get people to donate sufficiently, he instigated the yearly membership fee option (and adverts) - which has now become a recurring subscription model for members.

At what point did this turn into a business?

If it is a business, shouldn't all those that are responsible for providing help/advice, etc, receive remuneration for their time and effort? After all, without those people, this forum would be a blank page - and then who would pay to keep those servers running? Those people are the "business assets", that don't get paid for. Would you seek advice from a consultant and expect that consultant to pay you for giving you his advice? No, of course not - but that's what's happening here if this is to be considered a business. If this was a business, then the correct model would be for those seeking advice to pay for answers to their questions, and for those answering them to be paid for those answers - with the difference between payments in and payments out used to cover server costs and for the forum owner's profits. Those paying for answers would expect timely and accurate answers, with compensation should those answers prove inaccurate or damaging.

There's a difference between a group of likeminded individuals freely contributing to keep a forum going than there is for their free help/advice being exploited to create profit for the forum owner. If it's the former, then transparency of costs should not be a problem. If it's a business, then contributors should be expected to be paid for their contributions because they are, effectively, "employees".

I apologise if this all sounds harsh. I just seek clarity by asking asking questions that others may not want to ask. I'm not saying things to have a go at Justin (I speak with my wallet and just wouldn't pay if I had reservations).

I'm perfectly content with the original ideal of this forum in which we contribute to ensure that Justin isn't out of pocket. I'm sure everyone who's been here for a while is happy with that concept. I wonder how many would be so happy if they believed that this was a business in which they are all unpaid employees?

[socialgiraffe]

Hi JSR

Some excellent comments there and a very good way of looking at it which I had not considered.

I do agree that there needs to be more of a difference between members and premium members but also feel that although it was set up as a group of like minded people it has expanded beyond that and does need to be treated as such.

If all a member is doing is offering free advice then this forum would not be a good place for them, but if like me, you offer advice and also receive it there are your wages. Someone does need to be the owner though, their time spent is considerably more than anyone else and there are other things to consider, for example this is online publishing, if I start slating BMS (for example) to a point of becoming slander. It would not be me they chase but the publishers (i.e. Justin).

Like I said, I do not think anyone here is having a go at Justin (we can save that for another thread LOL!!!) I just think that as the owner and administrator of the forum it is his business where he spends the money and not really our concern.

But making the premium membership more attractive by restricting the junior members is something I am all for.

[purpledragon]

But is it a business? ?

Some excellent points there JSR most of which have been raised on numerous occassions but never really answered . I have recieved help and advice from this forum in the past but thankfully its not that often i need it so is that my payment for giving help and advice? difficult one to quantify really
theres a lot of new people on the forum some come ask for help then disappear how are they paying for that help
? some come ask for help then join in with the forum in general so is that their payment for help recieved
How much revenue does justin accumilate from the forum (retorical question) do we have the right to know is justin paying for his chauffer to fill up his roller on the back of our advice and knowladge . All of these are fair questions without malice this forum has moved greatly from the early days the beast has evolved and you need to wonder weather this should now be cl;assed as a business lets face it there are some suppliers who see a massive advantage to contributing to this forum listawood although very kindly are organising a get together at their stand in the forthcomming trade fair this is marvellous but dont be fooled they arnt doing this out the goodness of their hearts this will be a marketing exercise also and quite right too . But the point is the forum is now viewed as not just a group of people who pass advice between the few of us the forum is now running as an advice hot spot and jsr is bang on right when you tell joe bloggs why his prints arnt comming out right you are parting with information that in any normal business situation would be paid for .
isnt it difficult to get all those worms back in the can!

[purpledragon]

Ok social dont you bloody start its bad enough i cant type fast enough without John getting in first now youre at it lol:eek:

[John G]

i cant type fast enough without John getting in first

Not getting in on this one - had enough of every debate turn into a heated argument.

[logobear]

My main reason for not renewing is that i don't have to!
- and I didn't pay by direct debt last year,
so the (very modest) sum of £10 is unpaid. (I hope Justin spends his tenners on loose women and fast living!)
(memo to self, - pay!)
I think the forum is great, and have got great value from it,
- I almost think the £10pa should be compulsory,
If any member cannot get more than £10 of value from this forum, - they are not in the business!
imho

[Ian M]

Lots of very interesting points I have to say.

I think the forum should be a closed forum because we have seen so many come & get the information they want & then disappear never to be seen again. I have also noticed a few people join in the past few weeks just to try to sell items which is more annoying. I think if non premium members want to sell on here they should have to pay for the privilege to be able to do that.

Over the last couple of years I have seen a few classic car club forums try being open to non members but, they all have now become only open to fee paying club members. They were getting lots of people asking how to fix problems with their cars etc & once they got the answers they were never to be seen again. I really do think we do need to have fee paying members only. Lets face it when I first started out there really wasn't anywhere I could go to ask someone how to solve a problem I had. I had to sort it out myself which cost me time & money. At that time I would have been more than happy to pay £10 per year just for the help I needed at the time.

As for transparency over where the money is going well, there is always going to people who want to know what you are doing with every single penny & those who don't. I think most of us know by now this forum does cost money to host etc & I think we have to ask ourselves would we work for nothing. One thing I can tell you is I don't receive anything for being a moderator & I pay my £10 like most others do because, I think it is well worth every penny.

Just one last thing, where could you get the same help & advice for just under 3p per day?

[Paul]

100% agree with Ian! I love the idea of sale section for paid members only.
Also posting links to they services ie: web design etc...
some people pay money to have privilege to advertise on here.


reference to money I wonder if any of people here got statement in shops what the earn money going in to??

[JSR]

I think if non premium members want to sell on here they should have to pay for the privilege to be able to do that.

I think it should definitely be a requirement that you can only sell items here if you're a premium member.

Just one last thing, where could you get the same help & advice for just under 3p per day?

The thing is, though, that you're not paying 3p a day for the help and advice. That's available for free whether you pay or not. What you're paying for is to keep the forum going - or, at least, that's what I thought we were doing.

I bet we'd get a few less "casual question askers" that disappear overnight if payment was required prior to being able to view answers to questions. And I'd bet we get a lot more "experienced question answerers" if a portion of that payment was paid to those who answer the questions.

The question is, do we want that, or not? If we don't, then it should be acknowledged that payments made are solely to support the forum and to ensure it's continuation and, in those terms, I don't see why there'd be any reluctance for costing transparency.